Legislature(1995 - 1996)

02/10/1995 08:08 AM House RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                              
                       February 10, 1995                                       
                           8:08 a.m.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Joe Green, Co-Chairman                                         
 Representative Bill Williams, Co-Chairman                                     
 Representative Scott Ogan, Vice Chairman                                      
 Representative Alan Austerman                                                 
 Representative John Davies                                                    
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
                                                                               
 Representative Ramona Barnes                                                  
 Representative Pete Kott                                                      
 Representative Eileen MacLean                                                 
 Representative Irene Nicholia                                                 
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 Presentation by the Federal Arctic Research Commission                        
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 DR. DONALD O'DOWD, Chairman                                                   
 U.S. Arctic Research Commission                                               
 1550 La Vista Del Oceano                                                      
 Santa Barbara, CA   93109                                                     
 Phone:  (805)965-4505                                                         
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented overview of the Federal Arctic                 
                      Research Commission                                      
                                                                               
 GARRETT BRASS, Executive Director                                             
 U.S. Arctic Research Commission                                               
 4350 N. Fairfax Drive, Suite 630                                              
 Arlington, VA   22203                                                         
 Phone:  (703)525-0111                                                         
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions regarding the Federal                 
                      Arctic Research Commission                               
                                                                               
 CLIFFORD GROH, Member                                                         
 U.S. Arctic Research Commission                                               
 2550 Denali Street, 17th Floor                                                
 Anchorage, AK   99503                                                         
 Phone:  272-6474                                                              
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions regarding the Federal                 
                      Arctic Research Commission                               
                                                                               
                                                                               
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-12, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
                                                                               
 The House Resources Committee was called to order by Co-Chairman              
 Green at 8:08 a.m.  Members present at the call to order were                 
 Representatives Green, Williams, Ogan, Austerman and Davies.                  
 Members absent were Representatives Barnes, Kott, MacLean and                 
 Nicholia.                                                                     
                                                                               
 DR. DON O'DOWD, CHAIRMAN, FEDERAL ARCTIC RESEARCH COMMISSION,                 
 stated the commission has offices in Washington, D.C. and Anchorage           
 and is not a large commission in terms of staff.  He said the                 
 commission has two people in Washington and one person in                     
 Anchorage.  The commission has seven members.  He explained the               
 commission was established under the Arctic Research and Policy Act           
 of 1984, which was initiated by the Alaska congressional                      
 delegation.   This act was enacted and the commission created                 
 because the United States (U.S.) had an array of polar programs for           
 a long time but the pole always meant the South Pole.  Most of the            
 activities of the U.S. government in research and science were                
 focused in the Antarctic rather than the Arctic.  He noted that               
 Senators Stevens and Murkowski, and Representative Young decided              
 the Arctic should get more attention in regard to research.                   
                                                                               
 DR. O'DOWD stated what happens in the Arctic is of great importance           
 to people in Alaska and the lower 48 including the weather which is           
 generated, pollution, the ozone hole, etc.  He said it has been               
 difficult to get the U.S. government and its research enterprise to           
 focus on the Arctic.  He pointed out the commission is dedicated to           
 focusing attention of the federal agencies who do research and fund           
 research on the Arctic and its challenges.                                    
                                                                               
 DR. O'DOWD told committee members the Arctic is a line defined by             
 the Arctic Circle, the Porcupine River, the Yukon and Kuskokwim,              
 the Aleutians and the Bering Sea.  He stated there are seven                  
 members on the commission including one Alaska Native who lives in            
 the Arctic, two representatives who are people involved in Alaska             
 industry, and four representatives who are scientists or academic             
 people.  He noted the commission members are appointed by the                 
 President for a four year term and serve until replaced.                      
                                                                               
 Number 077                                                                    
                                                                               
 DR. O'DOWD commented on the duties of the Arctic Research                     
 Commission.  The commission is responsible for developing and                 
 recommending an integrated national Arctic research policy.  He               
 said the term integrate is an interesting one because the nation              
 has never had an integrated national research policy, but rather              
 every agency has tended to do what it wanted to do.  Another duty             
 of the commission is to facilitate cooperation between the federal            
 government and state and local governments with respect to Arctic             
 research.  Next, the commission is responsible for reviewing                  
 federal research programs in the Arctic and recommend improvements            
 in coordination among programs.                                               
                                                                               
                                                                               
 DR. O'DOWD said another duty of the commission is to cooperate with           
 the Governor of the state of Alaska, and with agencies and                    
 organizations of that state which the Governor may designate in               
 regard to the formation of Arctic research policy.  The commission            
 is responsible for recommending to the interagency committee the              
 means for developing international scientific cooperation in the              
 Arctic.  He stated the interagency committee involves 14 federal              
 agencies.  Another duty of the commission is that the interagency             
 committee, in consultation with the commission, the Governor of the           
 state of Alaska, the residents of the Arctic, the private sector              
 and public interest groups shall prepare a comprehensive five-year            
 program plan for the overall federal effort in Arctic research.               
 The plan shall be prepared and submitted to the President for                 
 transmittal to the Congress within one year after the enactment of            
 the act and then biannually thereafter.                                       
                                                                               
 DR. O'DOWD explained the commission has worked with the federal               
 agencies to develop the five-year plan.  The commission develops a            
 goals report every two years which sets the commission's judgment             
 as to what the priorities should be for Arctic research.  Those in            
 turn feed into the five-year plan.  He said one of the commission's           
 obligations is to try and guide the future of Arctic research.                
                                                                               
 Number 117                                                                    
                                                                               
 DR. O'DOWD stated the commission meets four times a year and one of           
 those meetings is in Alaska.  He said the commission is currently             
 working on several initiatives including a health initiative.  The            
 commission is interested in increasing the involvement of the                 
 federal government in health and medical research as it relates to            
 the problems and the needs of the Arctic and the Arctic people.               
 There are specific and distinctive health problems in the Arctic.             
 He noted the greatest concentration of accidental injury and death            
 in the U.S. is in the Arctic.  He stressed there has been a                   
 considerable rise in diabetes, heart disease, and specific cancers            
 among Alaska Native peoples.  He added that alcoholism is a long              
 term problem and diseases like hepatitis have been a concern for a            
 long time.                                                                    
                                                                               
 DR. O'DOWD stressed the commission believes that more federal                 
 attention should be directed toward these problems.  The National             
 Institutes of Health (NIH) spend approximately $7 billion a year in           
 research funding outside of the institute and only about $500,000             
 a year has come to Alaska in recent years, which is not a very good           
 penetration.  He said the commission has been working with the NIH,           
 bringing them together with university people from Alaska, with               
 state government people, with federal agencies, and with the Alaska           
 Federation of Natives (AFN) in an effort to explore the                       
 possibilities of increasing this type of research activity.                   
                                                                               
 DR. O'DOWD noted the commission has had some success.  A planning             
 grant is being prepared to get help from the federal government to            
 build the commission's capabilities in this research area.  He said           
 there also has been almost a doubling of funding from the federal             
 government in the last year, probably as a result of the commission           
 conducting a seminar with NIH and Alaska people in this health and            
 medical area.  He stated the main problem has involved getting the            
 federal government to realize there are talents present who can               
 make use of that funding if the right people know the right people.           
 He stressed the commission is working on that.                                
                                                                               
 DR. O'DOWD stated another area the commission spent time on about             
 two years ago was oil spills in ice infested waters.  He explained            
 a couple of years ago there was a plan to have a demonstration burn           
 north of Prudhoe Bay with the U.S. Coast Guard and Alaska Clean               
 Seas being the agencies putting the demonstration together.  The              
 planning was completed, the burn was prepared to go ahead, and then           
 at the last minute, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in              
 Washington, D.C. refused to issue a permit, even though the                   
 regional EPA office had signed off.  He added that the commission             
 spent a lot of time working on the protocols as to what kind of               
 research could be done for this kind of study, what kind of data              
 could be gathered, and the risks involved, as a design to guide the           
 people who would be conducting the research in a way that it would            
 do minimal environmental damage and give the maximum amount of                
 information.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 178                                                                    
                                                                               
 DR. O'DOWD noted that engineers who work in the oil spill burn area           
 say the only thing that can be done with an oil spill in the ice is           
 burn it.  He predicted some day there is going to be an oil spill             
 in the high Arctic and as of today, no one knows how to deal with             
 it.  He said there has not been an opportunity to conduct                     
 meaningful experimentation to determine how.  He felt it is a great           
 loss, but noted the protocols are still in place.  He added there             
 have been a few test burns in calmer waters but not ice infested              
 waters.                                                                       
                                                                               
 DR. O'DOWD said the commission is also working on an engineering              
 initiative.  Within the last few months, the commission has                   
 determined that more attention should be spent on housing, the                
 provision of clean drinking water, and waste water disposal in                
 Arctic settings.  The commission believes there should be more                
 federal research dedicated to developing appropriate housing                  
 standards, which have been adequately tested, good water management           
 standards, as well as waste water management standards.  He stated            
 the commission's suggestion is to get federal agencies to focus on            
 these areas with more of their attention and to come to an                    
 agreement to set up test sites, so if a model system is developed,            
 it not be installed somewhere and then discovered after three years           
 it does not work anymore.  Rather, the model system should be                 
 installed in some kind of test bed setting where people live in the           
 housing, use the water system, and work with the waste water                  
 disposal system for a period of time and improve it as a result,              
 until the system is ready to be installed with a higher degree of             
 expectation that it will work properly.  He added that the                    
 commission will conduct a workshop in Washington, D.C. March 9 and            
 10 to bring the federal agencies together with some Alaska people             
 to begin the process of moving ahead on this issue.                           
                                                                               
 Number 220                                                                    
                                                                               
 DR. O'DOWD stated during the last three years, the commission has             
 sponsored an effort to get the U.S. Navy to commit a nuclear attack           
 submarine to be used as a research platform under the Arctic ice.             
 He said the Arctic Ocean can be studied from under the ice in a way           
 that it cannot be done from any other setting.  He noted an ice               
 breaker is fine but it goes one course through the ice, takes                 
 measurements along the way and does that once a year which is not             
 very much in the way of investigating the Arctic Ocean.  There is             
 little known about the Arctic Ocean.  He stressed less is known               
 about the Arctic Ocean than any other major body of water on the              
 globe.  He explained that is due partly to not having ways of                 
 getting at it and partly due to it having been a strategic point of           
 focus in the Cold War for the last 40-50 years.                               
                                                                               
 DR. O'DOWD said the commission was successful in getting the first            
 nuclear submarine cruise in 1993 and added that another one leaves            
 in March.  He stated the commission now has a guarantee from the              
 U.S. Navy for cruises annually until 1999.  Therefore, the                    
 commission will now have the ability to study aspects of the Arctic           
 Ocean never before studied such as water quality, pollution,                  
 contamination, currents, temperatures, and a whole variety of                 
 things.                                                                       
                                                                               
 DR. O'DOWD noted a recent U.S. Coast Guard report indicated one               
 significant layer of Arctic water, which is about 500 meters deep             
 on average and covers the entire Arctic starting down several                 
 hundred meters below the ice, has increased in temperature by one             
 degree centigrade between 1991 and 1994.  He stated that change               
 does not sound like much but reminded committee members that this             
 involves hundreds of thousands of cubic miles of water.  He told              
 committee members the commission has been trying to get the U.S.              
 Navy to commit a submarine permanently, on a 365-days-a-year basis,           
 to be outfitted as a research station.                                        
                                                                               
 DR. O'DOWD said the commission can play an important role, to the             
 extent where there are issues the state legislature deals with that           
 data information and new research might strengthen their                      
 understanding when making decisions, the commission may be able to            
 persuade the federal government to fund some kinds of research                
 which could be of benefit to the legislature and to the state and             
 its people.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 287                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN wondered what motivates commission members, who             
 do not live in the Arctic, to be so interested in the Arctic.                 
                                                                               
 DR. O'DOWD responded Ben Gerwick has worked on Arctic engineering             
 problems such as oil platforms his entire life; George Newton, a              
 former submarine commander and engineer, has a hobby of Arctic                
 research; Luis Proenza has spent the last eight years living in               
 Alaska and was the principle research officer of the University of            
 Alaska.  Dr. O'Dowd felt research in the state is a critical                  
 industry.  He said the University of Alaska is probably doing $50             
 million worth of research a year currently, all of which is funded            
 from outside the state.  He noted the state's investment is                   
 approximately $7 million of matching money, against about $50                 
 million of primarily federal money.                                           
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if the terms of the commission are                    
 staggered.                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. O'DOWD said they are.                                                     
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if the commission appointments are                    
 confirmed by the legislature.                                                 
                                                                               
 MR. O'DOWD responded Congress is not involved.  The President's               
 appointments office makes the appointments and added that office is           
 the most secretive agency he has ever dealt with.                             
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN recalled the commission has a five-year plan.  He           
 wondered if the annual review keeps the five-year plan moving                 
 forward.                                                                      
                                                                               
 GARRETT BRASS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, U.S. ARCTIC RESEARCH COMMISSION,           
 said the plan is of five years duration and the starting point of             
 the five years is restarted every other year.  The commission                 
 publishes the goals report at the end of January which outlines               
 goals to achieve in the plan and the plan is then published, which            
 is the multiple agency response to the goals report.                          
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN wondered if the committee could get a copy of the           
 plan.                                                                         
                                                                               
 MR. BRASS replied he would send the plan, as well as the                      
 commission's annual report.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 350                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES stated he has an array of issues and               
 concerns to discuss.  He said an area of great concern to the state           
 is the design and delivery of clean water in the Arctic and rural             
 settings and added it is a generalized concern under the heading of           
 permafrost engineering.  He noted the single largest geological               
 hazard in Alaska is permafrost.  There is a great deal of damage              
 done to structures and to financial investments in the state if the           
 existence of permafrost is not detected and/or engineered for.  He            
 pointed out that in many settings, there are no good solutions                
 currently.  Therefore, he felt that issue is a prime candidate for            
 research.                                                                     
                                                                               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES observed that housing and highways are other            
 major issues where good solutions have also not been found.  He               
 said another area of concern is earthquake and volcano hazards.  In           
 the realm of volcano hazards, he has two concerns.  The first                 
 concern involves interagency coordination at the federal level.  He           
 noted when there is a volcano hazards warning in Alaska, three                
 principle agencies are involved:  The Federal Aviation                        
 Administration, the National Weather Service, and the U.S.                    
 Geological Survey (USGS).  He felt the coordination among those               
 agencies in the past was less than desirable and in some cases,               
 resulted in a direct risk to human safety.  He stated a functioning           
 aircraft warning system has not been achieved yet, even though the            
 technology is in place.  He stressed the ongoing research needs to            
 be strengthened.                                                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said in regard to great earthquakes, Alaska             
 is one of the best laboratories for studying great earthquakes.  He           
 noted that Dr. O'Dowd had mentioned the Arctic extends to the                 
 Aleutian Island chain.  He pointed out that is the area which has             
 generated three of the great earthquakes out of the ten largest               
 earthquakes in recorded history.  He felt more research is needed             
 on tsunami generation mechanisms in that area and on providing                
 warnings for close by sites and in shallow waters.                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said in respect to earthquake monitoring in             
 the state, there is a great deal of data collected by the U.S. Air            
 Force under the old seismic monitoring of global test band.  That             
 data is technically not classified.  However, he spent eight years            
 as the state's seismologist trying to get that data and was only              
 marginal successful.  He felt it is an enormous waste of federal              
 dollars to be collecting that data and throwing it away, when it              
 could be used for other purposes while not compromising the                   
 original intent.  He thought the Arctic Research Commission could             
 be helpful in making data already collected available.                        
                                                                               
 Number 441                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. BRASS wondered if Representative Davies was familiar with the             
 Institutional Researchers and Interest in Seismic.  He felt perhaps           
 that group would be of assistance.                                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES responded he had tried that.                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES stated in light of ongoing budget cuts and              
 reorganizations, there have been rumors about the closing of the              
 Alaska branch of the USGS.  He expressed he would not be concerned            
 if there was only a reorganization in order to realign the USGS's             
 mission in Alaska.  He noted the Alaska branch was a special                  
 creation because of Alaska's unique circumstance.  He said reducing           
 the presence of the USGS would be of great concern to him.  He                
 added that only about ten percent of state and federal lands in               
 Alaska have been mapped on a reasonable geological scale and there            
 is a great deal of basic fundamental geological research remaining            
 to be done in the state, which is important for all kinds of                  
 resource development issues in the state.                                     
                                                                               
 MR. BRASS noted in the budget plan, which went along with the                 
 Contract for America, there was an intention to zero out the USGS.            
 He stressed if the committee were to make their interest in                   
 preserving the Alaska branch and the activities of the USGS known,            
 it would help in keeping that body moving forward.                            
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN wondered to whom the committee should make that             
 interest known.                                                               
                                                                               
 MR. BRASS stated he would get names to the committee of the                   
 appropriate Congressional committee chairmen to contact.                      
                                                                               
 DR. O'DOWD added that another threat is to close down all of the              
 earthquake monitoring the USGS does in southern California which              
 has not been popular with the people who live there.                          
                                                                               
 Number 499                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES stressed the USGS plays a major role in                 
 earthquake monitoring in the state of Alaska also.  The monitoring            
 effort is a joint effort between the state of Alaska and the USGS.            
 He said another area of concern is radiation monitoring.  He stated           
 what is not known is how many different agencies are actually                 
 involved in radiation monitoring in the state.  He felt there is a            
 need for coordination, and perhaps an overview of the strategy                
 being looked at in terms of what the state is trying to accomplish            
 and how those accomplishments can be done most efficiently.                   
                                                                               
 MR. BRASS said there is a program called the Arctic Nuclear Waste             
 Assessment program which is run through the Office of Naval                   
 Research which looks at the potential for leakage from former                 
 Soviet nuclear facilities.  He added that program is funded by                
 money set aside to maintain the nuclear infrastructure in the                 
 former Soviet Union.  He noted the U.S. Navy has no assurance that            
 money will continue.  The U.S. Navy runs the system so at the end             
 of every year if they have to shut down, they can provide a plan              
 based on the knowledge gained thus far.  He mentioned that again,             
 he would be happy to provide points of contact to encourage                   
 continuation of the program.                                                  
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN responded he would appreciate that information              
 because the Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) is also            
 involved.                                                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES added that much of DEC's effort is funded               
 through the federal government.  He said radiation monitoring is              
 important for determining the health status of subsistence foods in           
 Alaska and is an important means for understanding the problem.               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES stated another area of concern is alternate             
 energy.  There is a great need to develop cost effective, small               
 scale energy delivery systems in rural settings.  The state of                
 Alaska has some fledgling efforts directed at that problem, looking           
 at coalbed methane, small hydroplants, and a variety of those types           
 of efforts.  He felt a lot of research is still needed on how to              
 make these smaller scale power delivery systems cost effective.               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said the last concern is renewable resources            
 such as exporting seed potatoes, understanding the boreal forests             
 and what sustained yield means, etc.  He stated the federal                   
 government is heavily involved in fisheries research, noting that             
 the fishing industry is the single largest employer in the state.             
 Therefore, basic research for fisheries is always of concern to the           
 state.                                                                        
                                                                               
 MR. BRASS responded there is an international program called the              
 Arctic Environmental Protection Strategy (AEPS).  He said the                 
 President recently issued a presidential decision directive on                
 Arctic policy which lead to the commission's commitment to the                
 AEPS.  He stated there are three important components in the AEPS:            
 the Arctic Monitoring and Assessment Program, the Conservation of             
 Arctic Flora and Fauna, and the Protection of the Arctic Marine               
 Environment.  He said the funding for participation in the AEPS               
 system last year was $190,000 from the state department, which they           
 have not guaranteed to provide this year.  He noted that the                  
 Norwegians spent $800,000.  He told committee members the                     
 commission's goals report will call for, at a minimum, $500,000.              
                                                                               
 Number 621                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN commented the new Congress and certainly the                
 legislature is dedicated to cost cutting and observed that some of            
 these scientific programs are probably either on the cutting block            
 or are being looked at for possible cuts.  He wondered if the state           
 is in a conjectural mode that on one hand saying let's cut and cut,           
 but on the other hand, do not make those cuts in Alaska, not in the           
 environment which is so critical to us.  He wondered if that was              
 being received in Washington.                                                 
                                                                               
 MR. BRASS replied what is important in Washington is the ratio of             
 benefits to costs.  He felt if the cost yields great benefits such            
 as in safety of aircraft traffic in the state or in the                       
 productivity of the most valuable fishery in the country, etc.,               
 those programs can succeed.  He stated the legislature's input to             
 Congress on what the benefits of these programs are is important.             
 He noted that legislators have to make very important decisions on            
 very low levels of information.  Therefore, the more information              
 given to the national legislature about the importance of these               
 problems and issues, the better the decisions will be made.                   
                                                                               
 CLIFF GROH, MEMBER, FEDERAL ARCTIC COMMISSION, commented the                  
 composition of the commission is interesting.  The commission                 
 consists of four scientists, engineers, an indigenous resident of             
 the Arctic plus two private industry representatives, of which he             
 is one.  In representing private industry,  his purpose is to                 
 determine what the needs and interests of industry are for resource           
 development in the Arctic and try to direct some research in order            
 to help private industry.  He added that is a facet of the                    
 commission which has not been completely utilized and is a facet              
 needing to be explained to industry because there is the ability to           
 get federal research into areas which could be helpful to industry.           
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN said next week two representatives from industry            
 will be giving a presentation to the committee and he would pass              
 that information on to them.                                                  
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN recalled one of the issues mentioned was health.            
 He said the state has a disproportionate amount of hepatitis in a             
 few of the coastal villages.  He felt sewage treatment would help             
 alleviate the problem but added that cure would be energy                     
 intensive, especially in a cold climate.  He wondered if there is             
 a way to begin research without having the energy yet developed.              
 He noted something that will come out of this legislature is to               
 take a look at developing energy in these remote sites which is not           
 commercial to ship out, but worth developing for local use.                   
 However, he felt it is something which will be delayed.                       
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-12, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
                                                                               
 DR. O'DOWD stated an area which needs to be looked at is how the              
 commission can contribute to addressing the issue of cost effective           
 maintainable energy sources in small settings.  He said the Cold              
 Regions Laboratory has been working on this issue from a military             
 point of view, which may be adaptable to the kind of situations in            
 Alaska.                                                                       
                                                                               
 MR. BRASS stated commission members have gained a growing                     
 awareness, just by traveling around, about solid waste disposal               
 problems in the state.  He felt small energy supplies and solid               
 waste could be the topics for next year's workshop.  He pointed out           
 that in addition to energy utilization, an important problem in               
 these systems, is the level of sophistication relative to the                 
 people available to operate and maintain them.  Therefore, a reason           
 to test the systems in the field is to determine not only if they             
 work, but can they be kept working by the people who have to keep             
 them working.                                                                 
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN commented he toured a facility last year and the            
 theme he kept hearing was no system will work without proper                  
 maintenance.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 026                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN stressed the bush communities in Alaska             
 have a tremendous problem with fuel storage tanks.  He felt federal           
 agencies have looked the other way with the environmental liability           
 occurring out there.  He added there is a lot of coal in the                  
 northwest Arctic.  He wondered if any research had been done                  
 concerning small, coal fired electrical generation plants.                    
                                                                               
 MR. BRASS said he did not know, but would get him the answer.  He             
 stated one of the most interesting applications of coal is in the             
 production of alternative fuels.  Unfortunately, the alternative              
 fuels division of the Department of Energy is also on the list for            
 zeroing out.                                                                  
                                                                               
 MR. O'DOWD noted the fuel tank issue is a critical one in the                 
 villages and in many cases, involves multiple fuel tanks.                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN felt it is an issue that will come up in the              
 future and cost the state dearly.                                             
                                                                               
 MR. BRASS stated the commission has made an interesting connection            
 with a group called the Civil Engineering Research Foundation which           
 is sponsored by industry and has very good connections with all of            
 the civil engineering branches in the federal government.                     
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN added there is proposed legislation in the state            
 to combine utilities.  He said perhaps while in the process of                
 trying to find alternative energy, the legislature can combine and            
 reduce the number of these fuel tanks.                                        
                                                                               
 MR. BRASS thought the federal Rural Electrification Administration            
 is also on the cutting block.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 074                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN recalled it was mentioned that there is a                   
 potential for annual sub ice pack nuclear research.  He wondered              
 what effect the possible out fall might have on the food chain, the           
 environment, etc.  He also asked if the commission would have                 
 anything to provide the state to reduce the potential fear which              
 might come from a nuclear sub running about under an ice pack.                
                                                                               
 MR. BRASS responded the commission is not increasing the number of            
 submarine cruises but is going along as riders.  Those submarines             
 are already there and have been for 40 years.  He said he would               
 talk to Commissioner Newton about that potential fear however.                
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN stated there has been a real interest in the                
 North Sea route.  He said there is a natural gyre of a large amount           
 of ice and he assumed that part of the research would address                 
 issues concerning that ice.  In regard to oil spill burns on ice              
 infested waters, he pointed out the proven technology is there, but           
 the concern is what happens when there is a lot of ice and an oil             
 spill occurs.  He recalled there was a potential for this kind of             
 demonstration burn with Russians about two years ago.  He said the            
 state authorized a $1 million investment.  He wondered if there is            
 any benefit in reenergizing that effort and doing a burn in the               
 same kind of environment, but perhaps not in U.S. waters.                     
                                                                               
 MR. O'DOWD recalled the Russian project also broke down.  He said             
 he did not know what the status is at this time.  He added that the           
 U.S. Coast Guard has jurisdiction for any such research and Alaska            
 Clean Seas has the technology to deal with the burns.                         
                                                                               
 MR. GROH asked Mr. Brass to comment on the Arctic Research Vessel.            
                                                                               
 Number 147                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. BRASS said he worked with the University of Alaska on the                 
 design of the new vessel.  He stated progress on the vessel has               
 been very slow due to the political system.  It was agreed to abide           
 by the decision of a General Accounting Office (GAO) audit which              
 would decide whether buying or leasing such a vessel is superior              
 from the point of view of the federal government.  He noted that              
 audit has not been reported but he spoke with the auditors and they           
 have confirmed that buying is superior to leasing.                            
                                                                               
 MR. BRASS added that the GAO audit has brought up some questions              
 about how many ice breakers the nation needs.  He noted the U.S.              
 Coast Guard is also building a new ice breaker.  As a result of               
 this concern, the National Academy of Sciences, through the Ocean             
 Studies Board of the Polar Research Board, is going to conduct a              
 study of research plans in the Arctic Ocean.  After several                   
 upcoming meetings are conducted, the report will be written.                  
                                                                               
 MR. GROH added the vessel is going to be 343 feet and said he would           
 be happy to send the committee the design studies.  He added that             
 the cost of the vessel is estimated at $120 million to $125                   
 million.  He noted the U.S. Coast Guard's ice breaker is costing              
 $340 million.  He stated Senator Stevens and Senator Murkowski have           
 made it very clear, they expect the National Science Foundation to            
 proceed on the vessel.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 193                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN wondered if a time frame has been established.              
                                                                               
 MR. BRASS stated the National Science Foundation has recently                 
 instituted a fund within their budget for major research                      
 facilities.  He said in a year or two that fund will be freed up.             
 He believed there was an agreement at the last National Science               
 Foundation board meeting to consider a proposal that the Arctic               
 Research Vessel be injected in this stream for capitol support.  He           
 added there is an expectation that the state of Alaska will help on           
 the project in the following way.  If the state, through its                  
 bonding and borrowing authority, could spread the $125 million out            
 over 10-15 years, with the agreement the federal government could             
 pay the amount back over 10-15 years with an appropriate interest             
 payment, it will be much easier rather than going up on the hill              
 and trying to get an extra $125 million in one year.  He said the             
 vessel probably would not hit the water until the year 2000.                  
                                                                               
 MR. O'DOWD said there is an $8 million annual operating budget                
 involved with the Arctic Research Vessel, which would be located in           
 Seward.  He felt it will be a significant addition to Seward's                
 economy.                                                                      
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked what the make up of the crew on the vessel            
 would be.                                                                     
                                                                               
 MR. BRASS replied the crew would consist of employees of the                  
 University of Alaska.                                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES wondered if this would be another area where            
 some kind of resolution or letters would be helpful.                          
                                                                               
 MR. BRASS said as he understands it, the legislature has already              
 memorialized the Congress on their belief in this proposition and             
 added the Alaska congressional delegation is working on it.  He               
 felt the support was already there.                                           
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN said, "If we were to get into a situation where             
 either sub sea completions or the scary thought perhaps (as far as            
 my limited knowledge) of structures able to withstand ice impacts,            
 would there be, or is there any consideration being given, that               
 with the nuclear research that there may be, either through laser             
 or some other Buck Rogers type of thing that could be utilized in             
 an emergency to prevent a collision of a huge ice flow against a              
 sub floor completion or structure?  Is the research which is going            
 to be conducted in your vein more temperature, salinity, water                
 movements, and leave all of this other stuff to the military?"                
                                                                               
 MR. BRASS responded one of the technologies growing in the maritime           
 community is the ability to image the bottom of the sea floor.  He            
 stated in regard to hardening the connections, he felt that was a             
 very hard proposition.  He added there is a great deal of industry            
 research ongoing.  He said what has raised his interest is the                
 development of a system called the differential global positioning            
 system (GPS).  Once that system is in place, the navigational                 
 precision will be on the order of ten centimeters and when a well             
 head or a valve handle needs to be found, the GPS readout will                
 indicate when the vessel is over it.  He stressed this system will            
 also be great for search and rescue, a tremendous scientific tool,            
 and a huge boost to industry.  He noted the installation has been             
 accelerated in Alaska because it is the region with the most                  
 difficulty in navigation.  However, there currently is no intention           
 to carry the system on around the north side of the coast, which he           
 feels is a mistake.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 298                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN noted there have been discussions about                     
 harnessing the energy created by the aurora borealis.  He assumed             
 that issue is low on the priority list.                                       
                                                                               
 MR. BRASS said the commission is not proceeding in that direction             
 but added that the Institute of Geophysics is and has received                
 substantial funding to do so.                                                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES stated the research in regard to the aurora             
 borealis is directed more toward using the aurora as a natural                
 laboratory.  He said it is a plasma state up there and it is very             
 difficult to maintain plasma states in a lab on the ground.  He               
 added that the research allows an understanding of the fundamental            
 physics of how materials behave in that kind of plasma environment.           
 He noted from that point of view, it has some potential, long term            
 future implications about energy.                                             
                                                                               
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 There being no further business to come before the House Resources            
 Committee, Co-Chairman Green adjourned the meeting.                           
                                                                               

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